During my recent trip to London, I sat down with Chris Berrow for his regular programme on BBC Northampton to discuss Lucid Dreaming and my fiction novel Comatose. The programme was broadcasted on in June 2019.
Click here to listen to the interview.
And below is a transcription of the interview with some minor editing to make it read more clearly.
BBC:
So, this book is called Comatose. It’s by Tony Estrella, who has done a lot of researching and looking into the area of lucid dreaming.
If you don’t know too much about lucid dreaming…I don’t think there’s many books that are written about it actually, to be honest…this could be a good place to start. I’ve definitely never heard of a book that’s been inspired by lucid dreaming. So, where on earth did this idea come from?
TE:
Let’s start with lucid dreaming and a quick definition. Lucid dreaming is where you not only know that you’re dreaming, but you’re actively controlling yourself within the dream. It’s something that a majority of people have experienced at some point in their lives. Although most adults don’t remember lucid dreaming, so it tends to happen mostly in childhood.
Your audience might be familiar with the experience of falling, falling, falling…and then getting caught by your bed. What happens to lucid dreamers is they’ll have a moment of levitation where they’re able to briefly control themselves. For some people, this then inspires them to pursue more levitation and flying, which is one of the most common things in this dreaming.
BBC:
It’s one of those things that I’ve heard people talk about. And I’m sure as a kid, I remember, knowing that I was in a dream and thinking “what happens if I go over there?” And then you sort of control that dream.
Are there are ways that you can try and learn that process?
TE:
There are. It starts with answering the question of ‘do you dream regularly?’ When I ask that question in front of a live audience talking about sleep and dreaming, most people don’t raise their hands. People get very deep into their work, and sometimes getting regular sleep at night is a challenge for them.
Step One is to make sure you’re getting restorative sleep. And that comes from having good sleep hygiene, which is the wind down period that you take before you go to sleep. The period when you disconnect. Take the phone out of your hands. Read a book. Meditate. Whatever makes you relax.
When you’re getting good restorative sleep regularly, then you’ll find dreams start to come. And after that happens, you can then start focusing on ‘How do I lucid dream?’
As you suggested, there are techniques that a person can use as Step Two that come from either Western or Eastern philosophies. Things like challenging yourself as to whether the environment surrounding you is still your waking reality. Or perhaps it’s a dream. There are things like stopping and holding your breath for extended periods of time in a dream, where you would be able to hold it indefinitely.
BBC:
Isn’t it a bit scary, because once you have that control in your dream and when you’re asleep, you’re like a god. Some people may start to prefer the dream world…do you see what I mean?
TE:
Yeah. After speaking with other lucid dreamers, I believe that there are two camps for how people think about the implications of this type of control.
One group believes that lucid dreaming is an isolated experience. It’s all mine. Think of it like when you’re browsing the web on your computer. You’re in a private session, and you can do anything without consequences. The other camp of is one that operates as if you are always in an interconnected environment.
The science of sleep is still so early on this topic, so there’s no right answer. But, personally I believe it’s always safer to assume that every action you take has an impact on others.
BBC:
Let’s take it on to Comatose, which is your book and inspired by lucid dreaming. The four strangers in your book do use lucid dreaming in a way to connect together. It’s a really interesting concept. I guess this is an area so interesting, you just felt like you have to kind of put the book out there?
TE:
Yeah! Let me start with saying that the book was actually inspired by my lucid dreaming. I dreamt the end of the book. And then over the course of multiple dream experiences, I revisited the end again. And then I started dreaming other parts of the book, characters, and key scenes. And because I was actively in control, I could go back and interact with individuals again to get more depth to my story. By the time I started writing, I had a lot of material!
As you summarised, the story is about four people who are trying to cheat death. They independently discover a link between lucid dreaming and comas, which not only helps them to relieve individual pain, but puts them on this race for survival against each other.
Comatose is a fast paced, globe-trotting thriller that explains why we dream. It’s a very character rich story with an interesting plot. So, people who enjoy a good thriller, regardless of whether they’re interested in the topic of lucid dreaming or not, will enjoy this book.
BBC:
In the way you wrote the book, through lucid dreaming, you then have to wake up and type it all out! Was that bit annoying? Because you probably felt that you’ve actually done the hard work already and how have to put it on paper.
TE:
Yeah, I wouldn’t say it was annoying. It was a new skill I had to learn though. We actually have a part of our brain which erases and wipes our memory every morning, which is why five seconds after waking up you might remember the details of a dream. But then five minutes later, you’re like, “What was that again?”
BBC:
Well, I’ve composed sonatas is in my sleep, and then I’ve woken up and I go “No! I forgot!”
TE:
Yeah, well then you’re like Paul McCartney!
BBC:
Thank you so much for saying that!
Is it restful to lucid dream? Because sometimes when you dream, you feel like you spent eight hours of your night worrying about something, rushing to get to work but the trains are running late, and then you eventually wake up and you’re exhausted…
TE:
In my case, and in many of the people I spoken to, having regular dreams including lucid dreams are actually an indication for getting good restorative sleep. So, for me, I wake up refreshed. My dreams help me process whatever is going on in my head.
One of the most well-known sleep scientists is Matthew Walker, who has published a book around sleep science. He explains that that dreams help us to convert our short term memories into long term ones. And sleep also helps with reconciling emotions. Being able to dream regularly actually has a health benefit for us. Like exercise and nutrition, sleep is something we should actively be monitoring and trying to improve every day.
BBC:
If people fall asleep reading your book, is this the one case where an author probably wouldn’t mind it?
TE:
I’d love it! Because it means that people are getting good sleep hygiene by reading a book and disconnecting from their day to day. I take that as a compliment.
BBC:
Excellent. I’m glad to hear you say that. Well Comatose is a brilliant read! It’s a really interesting concept. I’ve never heard of anything like this. As far as you understand, is this one of the first books of its kind?
TE:
When you’re talking to publishers and trying to get your book out in the market, you always look at what the “competitive set” of books are out there. I think you’re right in that I didn’t come across another fiction novel about lucid dreaming with this type of character approach that also integrates the future of healthcare. Healthcare technology is another important focus in my life, so I included artificial intelligence, smart devices, robotics, and holograms into my story including AI characters.
As for having a book inspired by lucid dreaming, there a few, but on different subjects like Mary Shelley and Frankenstein. So overall, yeah, it’s breaking new ground.
BBC:
Thank you for explaining it so well! For people looking for Comatose, what’s the best place to get it?
TE:
It’s available at Waterstones, Foyles, Daunt, Amazon, or you can go to my website www.tonyestrella.com. Spelled like the beer. From there, you can get links to wherever you prefer buying the book.
